[Annamaria]

1) What is your opinion of cloning horses?


2) Would you purchase a clone, why or why not?


3) Would you breed to a cloned stallion, why or why not?


4) How do you think the clones will affect the horse market in general, the breeding market, and the show pen competition?

[3llie]

1) What is your opinion of cloning horses?
In my opinion, it depends entirely on the circumstances. If a breeder is cloning their prize horse just go get higher marks, or more money in the show ring, then I think this is wrong. If somebody is offering to clone a horse after it has died to 'help' grieving owners, the I believe this is definitely wrong as it is exploiting somebody at a difficult time when they may not be thinking rationally. The horse wouldn't be the same horse, no matter how geneitcally indentical it is. It would have a different personality, different quirks. It would be a different, very expensive horse, that looked similar to your own. (See: www.bestfriendsagain.com - It's weird and unethical and creepy.). However, if the horse was cloned for research purposes (now don't get all angry with me, I don't mean clone a horse and throw chemicals at it to see what happens), like to further our knowledge about the clonig process, finding out how to make it safer, more economical, then yes, I think this is acceptable.

2) Would you purchase a clone, why or why not?
I personally wouldn't. I wouldn't necessarily want to be a part of the cloning market. The long-term affects are not known, and even though the horse will not inherit certain hereditary dieases, there is no way of telling wether or not the actual process of cloning the horse will affect the offspring in the future, and if it causes the horse to be more usceptable to other diseases.

Cloning your horse will cost you $367,350 plus a patent royalty fee of 15% based on the number of clones produced and their estimated value, according to Peter Kagel, founder and president of http://www.horsecloning.com. Kagel estimates that for your money you could end up with 0 to 16 clones.

It's extremely expensive, and whereas when you buy a horse produced naturally, you know it is an individual. There is no other horse quite like it. Btu if you buy a cloned horse, there could be up to 16 other horses that are genetically identical to your own. It just doesn't feel right.

3) Would you breed to a cloned stallion, why or why not?
I wouldn't. Many of my reasons are the same for question 2. There is absolutely no benefit to breeding your mare to a cloned horse, other than possibly avoiding a few diseases. Cloning simply makes the genes the same, so they inherit the same kind of medical problems/immunitites; but the actual horse look different to the parent. They have different markings; they are different heights; they have different personalities...

4) How do you think the clones will affect the horse market in general, the breeding market, and the show pen competition?
I don't know much about the markets, but I would imagine that if cloning became readily available and cheap enough to everyone, in the show ring it would be near impossible to get anywhere with a horse who wasn't cloned. Everyone would want a clone of an amazing horse, therefore you'd end up with a show ring full of nearly identical super-horses. I would imagine the breeding market would fail, since a whole load of people would be turning to cloning amazing horses rather than breeding naturally and having the possibility of having a mediochre foal by a champion horse.
Even though there is no promise to having a horse that would be as conformationally perfect as the parent may be, I think a lot of poeple would be fasley drawn into the idea of having a horse that will earn them thousands of pounds in the show ring, and a lot of people would be disappointed.
I guess I just really don't like the idea of the world being full of horses that look the same. I'm liking the varition that we have. ;]

[Margaret]

I'm not at all in favor of cloning horses. There are enough breeders, large and powerful and small and hoping to survive, w/o cloning. There are wonderful horses out here -- all kinds for everything. Trying to repeat a favorite horse/dog/whatever is a fine idea that I understand but wouldn't do. Plus I don't have the money. For the people with loads of money, have at it I guess; but I'm not for them at all. And, I hope AQHA doesn't ever register them. I like to see what Mother Nature has in store for us with her own models.

[Annamaria]

(See: www.bestfriendsagain.com - It's weird and unethical and creepy

I agree. I think cloning for that reason is very, very wrong. I actually think people that want to bring their dead "best friend"/pet whatever back are dealing with serious psychological issues.
You don't pretend your pet didn't die by creating a new one-- that isn't healthy.
Plus, with what you spend on getting your little fantasy recreated, you could save the life of several homeless or unwanted animals.

But what about cloning a gelding, so you can get a stallion to pass on those genes? In cases of extremely outstanding horses, wouldn't this be worth the cost and effort?

[3llie]

I agree. I think cloning for that reason is very, very wrong. I actually think people that want to bring their dead "best friend"/pet whatever back are dealing with serious psychological issues.
You don't pretend your pet didn't die by creating a new one-- that isn't healthy.
Plus, with what you spend on getting your little fantasy recreated, you could save the life of several homeless or unwanted animals.

But what about cloning a gelding, so you can get a stallion to pass on those genes? In cases of extremely outstanding horses, wouldn't this be worth the cost and effort?

I just think that in any case where someone is trying to recreate an animal with the same genes to create an amazing "super-horse" so that they can win in the show ring is wrong. There are so many brilliant stallions out there that are up for stud and will pass on their good genes (not to mention most of the time they'll be cheaper than cloning) that there is no practical reason for cloning, it's simply the breeders' greed that makes them want to recreate their prize horses exactly and get themselves more money.

[Annamaria]

I just think that in any case where someone is trying to recreate an animal with the same genes to create an amazing "super-horse" so that they can win in the show ring is wrong. There are so many brilliant stallions out there that are up for stud and will pass on their good genes (not to mention most of the time they'll be cheaper than cloning) that there is no practical reason for cloning, it's simply the breeders' greed that makes them want to recreate their prize horses exactly and get themselves more money.

If I had a champion gelding I could see myself cloning them. Not for greed but for wanting to preserve the bloodline and genes. If I had an animal that I thought truly deserved its genes being replicated then it doesn't matter if it's via clone or whatever....

[WesternPleasurec...]

cloning is horrible....it is against god's will and the thought of creation.

[Annamaria]

cloning is horrible....it is against god's will and the thought of creation.

1. You don't know God's will.
2. Cloning occurs in nature with plants all the time
3. Is it horrible if it is used to save endangered or extinct animals, or cure diseases?

[bayou1988]

my only thougts on this subject is that the horse should not be allowed to preform in shows or races. other than that if people want to spend millions of dollar to bring back a dead horse (which has A high chance of not even being the same color) let them it their money to waste

[WesternPleasurec...]

1. You don't know God's will.
2. Cloning occurs in nature with plants all the time
3. Is it horrible if it is used to save endangered or extinct animals, or cure diseases?

Oh I dont....you dont know my life or myself
that is with PLANTS that is there way not the animals way
I bet half of the endangered animals, were killed off by hunters, I am not being a tree hugger or anything.
Do YOU Know God's Will then why dont you tell me then, you seem so sure.

[bayou1988]

im qouting a friend here she was reading it but didnt want to sign up Ive already posted my opinion


"while i dont know gods will, if according to you most animals have gone extinct due to hunters (which actually isnt true) then do you think that was gods will...that seems just as unatural as cloning"
."'and the thought of creation'....I think you mean evolution?."

[Stormees Willow]

im qouting a friend here she was reading it but didnt want to sign up Ive already posted my opinion


"while i dont know gods will, if according to you most animals have gone extinct due to hunters (which actually isnt true) then do you think that was gods will...that seems just as unatural as cloning"
."'and the thought of creation'....I think you mean evolution?."

I think what she was trying to say, is most animals go extincnt because people love to hunt or rid of them. the thought of creation was and never will be evolution....do you think we came from monkey's or horses from an animal that was the size of a dog and looked like a deer?

[Annamaria]

I don't think anyone can know God's will.
I'm a Christian but I see nothing wrong with cloning, as long as it isn't done for the wrong reasons (IE, cloning a lost pet to deal with grief, instead of saving a puppy in need).

I think spending $300,000+ to clone your horse is generally stupid. Wouldn't you be better off buying 300 horses at that price? But I would definately support cloning to save endangered/extinct animals.

Humans have caused most animals to be endangered; Cloning can help bring back endangered species... what a wonderful tool God gave us to save the planet; we can have a real "noahs ark" of frozen DNA to save species.


If cloning is "unnatural and wrong" -- What about antibiotic drugs? Ipods? the Internet? Cars?

How do you feel about animals that have evolved due to humans -- ie, selective breeding of things for so long, they couldn't even survive in the wild and have to be kept alive by humans? An example is domestic turkeys; they are so fat and misshapen they couldn't survive in the wild.

was and never will be evolution....do you think we came from monkey's or horses from an animal that was the size of a dog and looked like a deer?

Yes, I do believe horses evolved from eohippus and we evolved from primates ancestors (NOT today's monkeys, obviously). I'm a biology major, and nothing in biology would make sense at all without it! None of the "Creationism" theories make any type of sense, nor are they testable like evolution.... Ok, I don't want to hijack this thread, I started a NEW discussion on evolution here: http://ultimatehorsesite.com/horseboard/in...showtopic=31800

[ReininCowHorsesR...]

What erks me so much about this issue is that the AQHA is thinking of registering the horses! Also the fact that we have such a problem with unwanted and overflow of horses why make more than what is already being made by just breeding. Its way to expensive and only people with money will be able to do it.

On another aspect of it, use this as a sinerio.... i have a well known stallion (A), i clone him (. A continues to go out on the circiut work his but off and "break down" while B is back a the barn breeding never having to compete or prove himself! how do you know if he will throw the same things as A??

Also Charmane James had her horse cloned, he is genetically identical to Clayton (his clone), if they are genetically identical then why do they look totally diferent? Scamper has no white on his face, but clayton does. its no different then identical twins, they are the same but they are different. There are differences!

The only thing the horse has is the same genetic make up, they may not have the same good conformation, color, attitude, breeding aspects, speed index, athletic ablity and so on ....... so if you really think about it you might as well just breed another horse for that matter.

[Kelin]

I lost a beautiful black Arab stallion to a pack of dogs last year. I'd give anything, maybe even ethics to have him back... To have him able to create more of the wonderful foals that he sired. We only managed to get 4 before he was tragically taken by idiocy. In some cases, I guess cloning might have a use. However, I think I'll just continue my search for a natural replacement.